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| @Finellach. Be nice, I know what the ancient Marshall arms are : probably shouldn't trust me with the whole thing (or anything really) if I couldn't even identify this one. Some results just don't appear for me (Sackville, Giffard, now this one ...). So I'm not sure what I'm gonna do (the roll is done, has been for a while), it's piling up on the captcha thing to make this perfectly frustrating. [[User:Solo|Solo]] ([[User talk:Solo|talk]]) 00:23, 10 July 2018 (UTC) | | @Finellach. Some possible additions for your Estouteville edit.<br> |
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| Don't worry...it happens. That is why I write extensive descriptions. ;) BTW the 114. and 117. (William Grandin and Robert le Poer) have been identified in later editions of Aspilogia and through Edward's Roll I believe. Grandin is three mullets or, label of three points (?) gules and Robert le Poer are three boar head's couped Or, armed and langued of the same. Both ofc on azure. [[User:Finellach|Finellach]] ([[User talk:Finellach|talk]]) 13:55, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
| | Cadet branches (non-exhaustive list) :<br> |
| | - Estouteville-Torcy, lords of Torcy, Beynes and Estoutemont : lion collared or (same arms as Robert V in the Wijnbergen, descended from Estout, younger brother of Robert V)<br> |
| | - Estouteville-Bouchet, lords of Le Bouchet and Freuleville : lion charged with a fleur de lis or<br> |
| | - Estouteville-Rames, lords of Rames, La Ramée and Bourg-Achard : a bendlet or overall<br> |
| | - Estouteville-Auzebosc, lords of Auzebosc, Lammerville and Touffreville : lion charged with a crosslet or (sometimes a tower)<br> |
| | - Le Hetray (or Estouteville du Hetray), lords of Le Hetray : two barbels sable<br><br> |
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| You're right but in the Dering those are truly unreadable without trace of paint (there's the distinct possibility they were unfinished items as suggested by Brault for 117). The question I've been pondering about is whether I should restore them or not. In other cases like 7 and 145, I could decide by enhancing the picture (much harder than it sounds) but those two are just a mush of faded paint. I had both illustrations done first but decided against in a second time to keep the roll as it appears ... but, I've also restored Nicholas de Criel's arms rather than keeping the result of the falsification and the same could be said for Gosshall which I restored to the seal design despite the fact that not much of it can be distinguished anymore in the roll.<br><br>
| | In the english branch, there's a couple individuals represented with a variant in english rolls (William+Walter) :<br> |
| Another problem of restoring items from other rolls is that you may not restore it exactly like intended (given the number of variations, it could very well be slightly or totally different). For instance all labels in the Dering are five points, no exception and stars & mullets have very uncertain/varying designs which could make the arms of William Graundyn slightly different than their representation in other rolls (six mullets in the Herald's Roll, but only three without label in the Camden Roll). Robert le Poer (Boer/Bere/Vere) is item 268 of the Herald/FitzWilliam Roll and is indeed azure three boar's heads or.<br><br>
| | - William de Stuteville, Glover's Roll 171, barry of twelve argent and gules three cocks sable--[[User:Solo|Solo]] ([[User talk:Solo|talk]]) 13:07, 22 July 2018 (UTC) |
| I don't know I suppose the item could be included with a comment pointing that it's restored & unreadable/unfinished in the original material. [[User:Solo|Solo]] ([[User talk:Solo|talk]]) 15:08, 10 July 2018 (UTC)
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@Finellach. Some possible additions for your Estouteville edit.
Cadet branches (non-exhaustive list) :
- Estouteville-Torcy, lords of Torcy, Beynes and Estoutemont : lion collared or (same arms as Robert V in the Wijnbergen, descended from Estout, younger brother of Robert V)
- Estouteville-Bouchet, lords of Le Bouchet and Freuleville : lion charged with a fleur de lis or
- Estouteville-Rames, lords of Rames, La Ramée and Bourg-Achard : a bendlet or overall
- Estouteville-Auzebosc, lords of Auzebosc, Lammerville and Touffreville : lion charged with a crosslet or (sometimes a tower)
- Le Hetray (or Estouteville du Hetray), lords of Le Hetray : two barbels sable
In the english branch, there's a couple individuals represented with a variant in english rolls (William+Walter) :
- William de Stuteville, Glover's Roll 171, barry of twelve argent and gules three cocks sable--Solo (talk) 13:07, 22 July 2018 (UTC)
