House of Joinville: Difference between revisions

Latest revision as of 08:41, 20 February 2025

Joinville, Geneville, Genevill, Genevel, Geynville, Ianvilla etc.

Coat of Arms
House of Joinville
Lords of Jonville
Hereditary Seneschals of Champagne
Adopted from Broyes family
Attributed ancient arms
House of Joinville
Lords of Joinville, Sailly, Rimaucourt and Reynel
Hereditary Seneschals of Champagne
Counts of Vaudémont

Cadet Branches
House of Joinville-Sailly
Lords of Sailly, Échenay, Donjeux, Jully-sur-Sarce and Plichancourt
Issued from Guy, 5th son of Geoffroy IV de Joinville
House of Joinville-Vaucouleurs
Lords of Vaucouleurs, Méry, Ludlow and Trim
Barons Genevill
Issued from Geoffroy, 2nd son of Simon I de Joinville from his
2nd marriage
Anglo-Irish branch
House of Joinville-Gex
Lords of Marnay, l'Écluse
and Divonne
Barons of Gex
Issued from Simon, 3rd son of Simon I de Joinville from his
2nd marriage
Savoy branch
House of Joinville-Briquenay
Lords of Briquenay, Venafro, Alife, Nusco, Civitate and Sant'Angelo dei Lombardi
Counts of Sant'Angelo
Issued from Geoffroy, eldest son of Jean I de Joinville
Neapolitan branch

Personal Arms
Jean I de Joinville
Lord of Joinville
Seneschal of Champagne
Dering Roll, c. 1279
Pierre de Joinville
Lord of Gex
Eldest son of Simon de Joinville,
Lord of Gex and Marnay
Tournoi de Compiègne, 1279
Guillaume de Joinville
Lord of Gex
Seal, 1293
Guy de Sailly
Lord of Sailly
Seal, 1299
Jean de Joinville
Lord of Jully
Seal, 1314
Jean de Joinville
Lord of Jully
Counterseal, 1314
Ogier de Donjeux
Lord of Donjeux
Seal, 1360

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 <gallery caption="Coat of Arms" align=center style= "color: #292929;font-size:1.2em;font-weight: normal;text-align:center;font-style: normal;">
-Joinville Ancient.svg|House of Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lords of Jonville<br>Hereditary Seneschals of Champagne<br>Ancient arms adopted from [[House of Broyes|Broyes family]] in 1150</span>
+Joinville Ancient.svg|House of Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lords of Jonville<br>Hereditary Seneschals of Champagne<br>Adopted from [[House of Broyes|Broyes family]]<br>Attributed ancient arms</span><!-- There's no record they ever used the exact same design without chief (entirely possible at that time) so separate wording (horsebrays adoption being certain) -->
-Joinville.svg|House of Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lords of Joinville, Sailly, Rimaucourt and Reynel<br>Hereditary Seneschals of Champagne<br>Counts of Vaudémont</span>
+Joinville.svg|House of Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lords of Joinville, Sailly, Rimaucourt and Reynel<br>Hereditary Seneschals of Champagne<br>Counts of Vaudémont</span><!-- Oldest seal (1182) already has the lion in chief for the lordship of Sailly -->
 </gallery>
 <gallery caption="Cadet Branches" align=center style= "color: #292929;font-size:1.2em;font-weight: normal;text-align:center;font-style: normal;">
-Geneville.svg|House of Joinville-Sailly<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lords of Sailly, Échenay, Donjeux, Jully-sur-Sarce and Plichancourt<br>Issued from Guy, 5th son of Geoffroy IV de Joinville</span>
+Geneville.svg|House of Joinville-Sailly<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lords of Sailly, Échenay, Donjeux, Jully-sur-Sarce and Plichancourt<br>Issued from Guy, 5th son of Geoffroy IV de Joinville</span><!-- Seals are extremely different from this attribution, with different designs for the various lordships -->
 Wijnbergen 534 Geoffroy de Joinville.svg|House of Joinville-Vaucouleurs<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lords of Vaucouleurs, Méry, Ludlow and Trim<br>Barons Genevill<br>Issued from Geoffroy, 2nd son of Simon I de Joinville from his<br> 2nd marriage<br>Anglo-Irish branch</span><!-- Eldest son of Geoffroy named Piers/Pierre preceded him but had a daughter Joan/Jeanne (2nd Baroness Genevill) who married Roger Mortimer, 1st Earl of March...she thus succeeded her grandfather in the English titles and lands. Geoffroy also had a 2nd son Gauthier/Walter whos line continues for a while in Vaucouleurs. Arms representative of this branch is the one in most French sources, English sources consistently give his arms as "azure" rather than "sable". Considering that the earlier branch of Sailly used "azure variant" it would be more reasonable to conclude the French armorials/sources far more credible in this case.  -->
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 <gallery caption="Personal Arms" align=center style= "color: #292929;font-size:1.2em;font-weight: normal;text-align:center;font-style: normal;">
-Dering 197 Jean de Joinville.svg|Jean I de Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lord of Joinville<br>Hereditary Senschal of Champagne<br>Arms variant in ''Dering Roll''</span>
+Dering 197 Jean de Joinville.svg|Jean I de Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lord of Joinville<br>Seneschal of Champagne<br>''Dering Roll, c. 1279''</span>
-Compiegne 74 Joinville.svg|Pierre de Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lord of Gex<br>Eldest son of Simon de Joinville, Lord of Gex and Marnay<br>Arms variant in ''Chronicles of Tournoi de Compiègne''</span>
+Compiegne 74 Joinville.svg|Pierre de Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lord of Gex<br>Eldest son of Simon de Joinville,<br>Lord of Gex and Marnay<br>''Tournoi de Compiègne, 1279''</span>
+Guillaume de Joinville 1293.svg|Guillaume de Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lord of Gex<br>''Seal, 1293''</span><!-- Seals of Hugues 1335/39 are too hard to tell for the crown -->
+Guy de Joinville 1299.svg|Guy de Sailly<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lord of Sailly<br>''Seal, 1299''</span>
+Jean de Joinville 1314.svg|Jean de Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lord of Jully<br>''Seal, 1314''</span><!-- Jean +1321 son of Guillaume lord of Jully, a sub branch of Sailly -->
+Jean de Joinville 1314 CS.svg|Jean de Joinville<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lord of Jully<br>''Counterseal, 1314''</span><!-- Similar seal for Robert lord of Sailly and Jully his uncle (Boos VER, does not give the ref though) - Robert's cadet son, Simon has a derived design in Vermandois (with bend+shield) - Probably for lordship of Jully, common possession of both cousins -->
+Ogier de Joinville 1360.svg|Ogier de Donjeux<br><span style="font-size:88%; line-height: 1.3em;">Lord of Donjeux<br>''Seal, 1360''</span><!-- Too hard to tell for ermine spots (entirely possible) -->
+<!-- TODO Variants from Vermandois -->
 </gallery>