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User talk:JSpuller

Revision as of 17:55, 22 October 2019 by Finellach (Talk | contribs) (New Arms requests: Several requests, mostly cadets of Hesse, complicated arms...)


New Arms requests

Lago - Arms of Lago - no need for elaboration, the image pretty much speaks for itself
Ornelas - Arms of Ornelas shows shield azure, bend gules with three gold lillies, on each side a siren holding a comb and a mirror
Gil Vantvisyet - Livro image, quartered Or and Azure, not sure what those things are in 1st and 4th quarter but it sure looks like some kind of shoes. 2nd and 3rd quarter a moor's head, over all a cross gules hollow argent
Pachecho Livro - source image. The arms of Pachecho in Livro seems like a hybrid of several cauldron variants we have: Pachecho, Manrique de Lara, Lara Ancient. The elements on the cauldron seem to be vaire nebuly similar to Vasconcelos f.e.
Afonso Garces - Again the source image is pretty straightforward, complicated but clear.
Gabriel Goncalves - source image. Arms is double-headed eagle holding a moor's head, all withing a "rope bordure" similar to Eca i.e. Eça arms.
Bairros Livro - source image. The Livro image shows three branches throughout the arms as opposed to Bairros proper which shows just three plain branches. In Livro branches are literally like three bends
Abul - source image - shield split in two. First half shows an imperial eagle like in the arms of Charlemagne, the other half is azure with a fess gules, fess gules charged with crescent argent, below fess two crescents gules.
Botos - source image shows a shield divided per saltire Or and gules, Or quarters charged with a Moor's head, gules quarters charged with argent towers
Viveiro - source image shows a shield quartered. 1st and 4th quarter are similar to Guzman or Manrique de Lara cauldorns (not so many serpent heads), cauldrons are completely chequy argent and gules on a azure field, bordure ermine. 1st and 3rd quarter are a variant of Fajardo quarters, water part seems smaller on this variant than on the example linked, while the branches are intertwined in a saltire.

Canton of Glarus - Glarus is ususally depicted as a monk, although the exact compositions vary. Similar to the monks in Zurich Roll 4. Sources and examples of Glaurus arms: wikipedia page about the arms, example1, heraldry of the world page

Duchy of Zara - Duchy of Zara located at city of Zara or Zadar. The only coat of arms missing to complete the Austrian Empire page. The arms show Saint Chrysogonus on a horse. This arms has been also described in Arthur Charles Fox-Davies' book of public arms where he describes it as "argent, a mounted knight in full armor, his lance in pale, all proper" and shows an illustration. Current civic arms and dating back to early 20th century also draw directly from the historical arms that was eventually now modern arms of the city and also of the duchy in Austrian Empire. The best way to describe how I feel the shield should look is that it should be f.e. same as Vilnius but the position of the arms and lance correct, and also the rider would not have a helmet but a halo...also would carry a shield in the same manner which would be "argent, cross gules" i.e. as Genoa arms f.e. Colors of the shield in general would be argent, horde sable...adorned gold and red, rider's armor full gold. An example of the rider. I'll probably make an example just show what I mean.

Forgach - Hungarian magnates, branch of Hont Pazman family. They seprated from the main line around 13th century, very influential and powerful during 16th century and the conflict with the Ottomans. Their arms was this.

Gustaf Carlson - illegitimate son of King Karl X Gustav. He was Count of Börringe and Baron/Lord of Lindholm. His arms was this

Reichenbach-Lessonitz - Morganatic branch of Hesse. The arms is quartered: 1st & 4th azure, a lion argent crowned Or holding a fire proper, 2nd & 3rd argent eagle sable with goats head, on its chest inescutcheon gules with three piles argent, chief argent. Over all inescutcheon per pale, Or imperial eagle sable and argent, two bars compony of 8 pieces gules and argent. example 1, example 2, example 3.

Hesse-Rotenburg - cadets of Hesse-Kassel. Includes Hesse-Wanfried, Hesse-Eschwege and Hesse-Rheinfels. example 1, example 2. There seems to be a 2nd variant but I am not sure how correct it is, it has two minor changes and IMO probably a mistake that perpetues itself on the internet example

Hesse-Philippstal cadets of Hesse-Kassel. example arms on the left

Hesse-Homburg cadets of Hesse-Darmstad example arms on the left

Hesse Duchy - great arms of the Grand Duchy of Hesse...we currently have simple arms. example

Hesse Hartenau - arms of Prince Alexander Battenberg as Count of Hartenau, also presumably used by his son. example 1, example 2

Chiverston or Cheverston - we already have a flag version for Powell roll, my request is this same in proper shield form. This family was in fact a cadet branch of the Beaumont-Meulan family.


So, I've been thinking about the Herald's and Dering continental programs. Those are a bit specific because they are copied from other rolls and riddled with errors. While I'm including invisible comments for most of those it still leaves that part of the roll in a state that is of little value to the average reader (who won't be seeing my comments) and potentially misleading (it happened before with other websites). I have thought of a few different solutions (non exhaustive ofc, if you have something else in mind) and I'd like to know what you think we should do ?
- Leave the material as it is but include a warning at the start of the sequence to warn the reader that most of it was inaccurately copied from other rolls. I really don't think we should leave those without at least a warning that the material must not be mistaken for a primary source (it's a flawed copy and must be treated as such). This is the least intrusive solution but doesn't provide the user with the corrections either.
- Include links to corrections inside the roll for each affected entry. That is what we occasionnaly did in other rolls for unfinished, incomplete or dissolved entries (which are very different cases though). The negative is that it is the most intrusive and time intensive solution while not being very practical for the reader either : you have to click a link to see the corrected proposition and can't see the overall result at once.
- Provide a link to a corrected version of that part (it has to be clear that it is a proposed reconstruction and not the original material). The more I think of it, the more I see this as the best option as it is rather simple to do and gives an overall corrected preview of the sequence in one click. The one negative argument here, is that the result is mostly a repeat of the Compiegne roll.--Solo (talk) 14:30, 21 April 2019 (CEST)