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Difference between revisions of "User talk:JSpuller"

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'''Hesse Hartenau''' - arms of Prince Alexander Battenberg as Count of Hartenau, also presumably used by his son. [http://www.europeanheraldry.org/files/6115/5307/5925/Count_Hartenau.jpg example 1], [https://www.dorotheum.com/fileadmin/lot-images/40S190128/hires/portraetist-um-1900-b-5904792.jpg example 2]<br>
 
'''Hesse Hartenau''' - arms of Prince Alexander Battenberg as Count of Hartenau, also presumably used by his son. [http://www.europeanheraldry.org/files/6115/5307/5925/Count_Hartenau.jpg example 1], [https://www.dorotheum.com/fileadmin/lot-images/40S190128/hires/portraetist-um-1900-b-5904792.jpg example 2]<br>
  
'''Byng Strafford''' - Barons Strafford and Viscounts Enfield, Earls of Strafford. This family was a branch of Byng of Wrotham, Barons Byng and Viscounts Torrington. The arms of this branch differed in so much that John Byng, 1st Earl of Strafford was granted an augmentation by George IV in 1815 by having his regimental colours being placed in sinister over his [http://wappenwiki.org/index.php?title=File:Byng.svg paternal arms]. The flag os 31st regiment was this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:31st_Foot_Colours.jpeg example 1], [https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uF8AAOSwEqVcThbm/s-l1600.jpg example 2]. The flag is yellow/gold with a british flag in canton; in the middle is a wreath made of Tudor roses (England), thistles (Scotland) and trefoils (Ireland) surmounted by a imperial crown.
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'''Byng Strafford''' - Barons Strafford and Viscounts Enfield, Earls of Strafford. This family was a branch of Byng of Wrotham, Barons Byng and Viscounts Torrington. The arms of this branch differed in so much that John Byng, 1st Earl of Strafford was granted an augmentation by George IV in 1815 by having his regimental colours being placed in sinister over his [http://wappenwiki.org/index.php?title=File:Byng.svg paternal arms]. The flag os 31st regiment was this: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:31st_Foot_Colours.jpeg example 1], [https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uF8AAOSwEqVcThbm/s-l1600.jpg example 2]. The flag is yellow/gold with a british flag in canton; in the middle is a wreath made of Tudor roses (England), thistles (Scotland) and trefoils (Ireland) surmounted by a imperial crown.<br>
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'''Robinson''' - Baronets of Newby, Barons Grantham, Earls and Marquesses of Ripon. The arms is: vert, a chevron between three bucks (stags) statant (standing like on [[:File:Cervera.svg]]) at gaze (head turned to the viewer like on [[:File:Cavendish.svg]] arms) Or. Basically it is the same arms as [[:File:Robinson Rokeby.svg]] except the stags are standing with heads faced to front (without the quatrefoils ofc). [http://www.europeanheraldry.org/files/9013/7279/9576/Barons_Grantham_2.jpg example]<br>
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'''Thomas de Grey, 2nd Earl de Grey''' - eldest son of 2nd Baron Grantham assumed the surname ''de Grey'' upon succeeding his aunt as 2nd Earl de Grey (should not be confused with Earl Grey) and quartered his paternal arms with that of Grey (barry of 6, argent and azure). The arms should thus be: 1 & 4 barry of 6, argent and azure (similar to [[:File:Edmund Grey.svg]] without the cadet differentiation ofc) and 2nd & 3rd the above arms of Robinson (of Newby, Earls and Marquesses of Ripon). [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Shield_of_arms_of_Thomas_de_Grey,_2nd_Earl_de_Grey,_KG,_PC,_FRS.png example 1] <- this one has the stags with wrong stance but the blazon is correct, [http://www.europeanheraldry.org/files/1813/7279/9587/Anne_Florence_Cowper_nee_Robinson_de_Grey_Countess_Cowper_7th_Baroness_Lucas_2.jpg example 2] <- arms of Thomas' daughter Ann, literally the same arms<br>
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'''Maguire''' - Ancient Irish family, originally petty kings of Fermanagh (Fir Manach), later Barons Maguire (of Enniskillen). Their arms is: vert, a white horse fully equipped, upon it a knight in full armor, on his helmet a plume of ostrich feathers and in his right hand brandishing a sword, all proper. Basically this charge is literally the same as is on the above requested Duchy of Zara (Zadar) arms except that the knight is holding a sword instead of a spear. [http://www.europeanheraldry.org/files/cache/5485b1c2d6c0df78e8860659bbd2b92a_f5914.jpg example 1], [https://i.pinimg.com/originals/6a/54/42/6a544206441757c38e0beef6a4f6141a.png example 2], [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Maguire.png example 3], [https://www.johngrenham.com/images/coats/maguire.gif example 4], etc.<br>
  
 
==Comment==
 
==Comment==

Revision as of 16:55, 9 November 2019

Corrections

New Arms requests

Lago - Arms of Lago - no need for elaboration, the image pretty much speaks for itself
Ornelas - Arms of Ornelas shows shield azure, bend gules with three gold lillies, on each side a siren holding a comb and a mirror
Gil Vantvisyet - Livro image, quartered Or and Azure, not sure what those things are in 1st and 4th quarter but it sure looks like some kind of shoes. 2nd and 3rd quarter a moor's head, over all a cross gules hollow argent
Pachecho Livro - source image. The arms of Pachecho in Livro seems like a hybrid of several cauldron variants we have: Pachecho, Manrique de Lara, Lara Ancient. The elements on the cauldron seem to be vaire nebuly similar to Vasconcelos f.e.
Afonso Garces - Again the source image is pretty straightforward, complicated but clear.
Gabriel Goncalves - source image. Arms is double-headed eagle holding a moor's head, all withing a "rope bordure" similar to Eca i.e. Eça arms.
Bairros Livro - source image. The Livro image shows three branches throughout the arms as opposed to Bairros proper which shows just three plain branches. In Livro branches are literally like three bends
Abul - source image - shield split in two. First half shows an imperial eagle like in the arms of Charlemagne, the other half is azure with a fess gules, fess gules charged with crescent argent, below fess two crescents gules.
Botos - source image shows a shield divided per saltire Or and gules, Or quarters charged with a Moor's head, gules quarters charged with argent towers
Viveiro - source image shows a shield quartered. 1st and 4th quarter are similar to Guzman or Manrique de Lara cauldorns (not so many serpent heads), cauldrons are completely chequy argent and gules on a azure field, bordure ermine. 1st and 3rd quarter are a variant of Fajardo quarters, water part seems smaller on this variant than on the example linked, while the branches are intertwined in a saltire.



Canton of Glarus - Glarus is ususally depicted as a monk, although the exact compositions vary. Similar to the monks in Zurich Roll 4. Sources and examples of Glaurus arms: wikipedia page about the arms, example1, heraldry of the world page

Duchy of Zara - Duchy of Zara located at city of Zara or Zadar. The only coat of arms missing to complete the Austrian Empire page. The arms show Saint Chrysogonus on a horse. This arms has been also described in Arthur Charles Fox-Davies' book of public arms where he describes it as "argent, a mounted knight in full armor, his lance in pale, all proper" and shows an illustration. Current civic arms and dating back to early 20th century also draw directly from the historical arms that was eventually now modern arms of the city and also of the duchy in Austrian Empire. The best way to describe how I feel the shield should look is that it should be f.e. same as Vilnius but the position of the arms and lance correct, and also the rider would not have a helmet but a halo...also would carry a shield in the same manner which would be "argent, cross gules" i.e. as Genoa arms f.e. Colors of the shield in general would be argent, horde sable...adorned gold and red, rider's armor full gold. An example of the rider. I'll probably make an example just show what I mean.

Forgach - Hungarian magnates, branch of Hont Pazman family. They seprated from the main line around 13th century, very influential and powerful during 16th century and the conflict with the Ottomans. Their arms was this.

Gustaf Carlson - illegitimate son of King Karl X Gustav. He was Count of Börringe and Baron/Lord of Lindholm. His arms was this


Hesse-Philippstal cadets of Hesse-Kassel. example arms on the left

Hesse-Homburg cadets of Hesse-Darmstad example arms on the left


Hesse Hartenau - arms of Prince Alexander Battenberg as Count of Hartenau, also presumably used by his son. example 1, example 2

Byng Strafford - Barons Strafford and Viscounts Enfield, Earls of Strafford. This family was a branch of Byng of Wrotham, Barons Byng and Viscounts Torrington. The arms of this branch differed in so much that John Byng, 1st Earl of Strafford was granted an augmentation by George IV in 1815 by having his regimental colours being placed in sinister over his paternal arms. The flag os 31st regiment was this: example 1, example 2. The flag is yellow/gold with a british flag in canton; in the middle is a wreath made of Tudor roses (England), thistles (Scotland) and trefoils (Ireland) surmounted by a imperial crown.

Robinson - Baronets of Newby, Barons Grantham, Earls and Marquesses of Ripon. The arms is: vert, a chevron between three bucks (stags) statant (standing like on File:Cervera.svg) at gaze (head turned to the viewer like on File:Cavendish.svg arms) Or. Basically it is the same arms as File:Robinson Rokeby.svg except the stags are standing with heads faced to front (without the quatrefoils ofc). example

Thomas de Grey, 2nd Earl de Grey - eldest son of 2nd Baron Grantham assumed the surname de Grey upon succeeding his aunt as 2nd Earl de Grey (should not be confused with Earl Grey) and quartered his paternal arms with that of Grey (barry of 6, argent and azure). The arms should thus be: 1 & 4 barry of 6, argent and azure (similar to File:Edmund Grey.svg without the cadet differentiation ofc) and 2nd & 3rd the above arms of Robinson (of Newby, Earls and Marquesses of Ripon). example 1 <- this one has the stags with wrong stance but the blazon is correct, example 2 <- arms of Thomas' daughter Ann, literally the same arms

Maguire - Ancient Irish family, originally petty kings of Fermanagh (Fir Manach), later Barons Maguire (of Enniskillen). Their arms is: vert, a white horse fully equipped, upon it a knight in full armor, on his helmet a plume of ostrich feathers and in his right hand brandishing a sword, all proper. Basically this charge is literally the same as is on the above requested Duchy of Zara (Zadar) arms except that the knight is holding a sword instead of a spear. example 1, example 2, example 3, example 4, etc.

Comment

So, I've been thinking about the Herald's and Dering continental programs. Those are a bit specific because they are copied from other rolls and riddled with errors. While I'm including invisible comments for most of those it still leaves that part of the roll in a state that is of little value to the average reader (who won't be seeing my comments) and potentially misleading (it happened before with other websites). I have thought of a few different solutions (non exhaustive ofc, if you have something else in mind) and I'd like to know what you think we should do ?
- Leave the material as it is but include a warning at the start of the sequence to warn the reader that most of it was inaccurately copied from other rolls. I really don't think we should leave those without at least a warning that the material must not be mistaken for a primary source (it's a flawed copy and must be treated as such). This is the least intrusive solution but doesn't provide the user with the corrections either.
- Include links to corrections inside the roll for each affected entry. That is what we occasionnaly did in other rolls for unfinished, incomplete or dissolved entries (which are very different cases though). The negative is that it is the most intrusive and time intensive solution while not being very practical for the reader either : you have to click a link to see the corrected proposition and can't see the overall result at once.
- Provide a link to a corrected version of that part (it has to be clear that it is a proposed reconstruction and not the original material). The more I think of it, the more I see this as the best option as it is rather simple to do and gives an overall corrected preview of the sequence in one click. The one negative argument here, is that the result is mostly a repeat of the Compiegne roll.--Solo (talk) 14:30, 21 April 2019 (CEST)

I've made a couple of modifications to the arms you recently uploaded as you can see on general upload page...hope that is fine. Watson-Wentworth arms was modified by introducing a more similar chevron engrailed to the stand-alone variants (Copleston f.e.) and along the line to standard chevron for quarters (chevron with charges around it), a similar arms is also already present on the site on the arms I made a while ago Villiers Jersey arms, as for the Wentworth qtrs. it looks better IMO if lion heads on lower quarters are also all of same size since they are rounded (more-less) and rounded objects look better if they are all of same size...appears more compact and symmetrical. As for the Petty-FitzMaurice arms I have simply added the standard ermine field for the quarters. Finellach (talk) 02:43, 30 October 2019 (CET)